2009-03-07T10:58:50  <procyon> Then I guess we can get started.
2009-03-07T10:59:10  <procyon> There are only a couple of issues that I can speak directly too,
2009-03-07T10:59:30  *** Tathar has joined #SW-Meeting
2009-03-07T10:59:37  <procyon> And that is primarily my recent participation, or lack thereof,
2009-03-07T10:59:57  <Tathar> hey everyone
2009-03-07T11:00:01  <procyon> the most recent activity from Brandon (or lack thereof)
2009-03-07T11:00:17  <procyon> and the current status with the LLC, and negotiations that are still on hold.
2009-03-07T11:00:24  <procyon> But I will be as brief as possible.
2009-03-07T11:00:43  <procyon> Basically, February was an awful month for me.  Some of you know why, some of you do not,
2009-03-07T11:01:14  <procyon> But I put a lot of shit in my life behind me, and I'm back to focusing on what's important to me,
2009-03-07T11:01:21  <procyon> so my dip in participation should be at an end.
2009-03-07T11:01:48  <procyon> As far as Brandon goes, Prod and I have spoken with him, he seems to be in a good place, claims to be willing to help and be involved,
2009-03-07T11:02:15  <procyon> but to that end, we have not heard nor seen much from him, so it is probably best to consider him a silent partner for the time being.
2009-03-07T11:02:47  <procyon> In general, I am happy to say that there is a spirit of good will among all of us,
2009-03-07T11:03:05  *** Duke has joined #SW-Meeting
2009-03-07T11:03:39  <procyon> so the initial animosity that he displayed upon his return has been resolved, and we consider his status to be an active member of the staff, albeit with only slight participation.
2009-03-07T11:04:01  <procyon> Concerning the LLC,
2009-03-07T11:04:24  *** Melon247 has joined #SW-Meeting
2009-03-07T11:04:34  <procyon> Things are humming along, we have our own federal tax ID, and while it may be too late to apply it towards the 2008 tax season, we earn considerably little in 2008, that it wouldn't even really matter.
2009-03-07T11:05:01  <procyon> GamerDNA simply has to report their distribution of funds to the IRS.  As an LLC, we made less than $5k in 2008, so it hardly matters.
2009-03-07T11:05:04  <procyon> However,
2009-03-07T11:05:21  <procyon> the checks that we have been receiving from GamerDNA have generally been trending downward.
2009-03-07T11:05:30  <procyon> That point to two likely possibilities.
2009-03-07T11:06:18  <procyon> The obvious one is that users are clicking through to ads less than they original did.  Given the lack of "freshness" that the ads have, that shouldn't be too surprising.
2009-03-07T11:06:56  <procyon> The less obvious possibility is that in the economic downturn, advertisers are paying less for the same promotion, and we're simply on the "trickle down" side of that fact.
2009-03-07T11:07:04  <procyon> Most likely, it is a combination of the two.
2009-03-07T11:07:22  <Tathar> any way to ask gamerdna what the deal is?
2009-03-07T11:07:29  <procyon> GamerDNA strongly requested that we find space for a 300x250 ad block that they seem to be heavily promoting,
2009-03-07T11:07:47  <procyon> But I assured them that, given our site layout, that was a virtual impossibility.
2009-03-07T11:08:05  <Skizzerz> those do tend to have the highest revenue, but the only way to get that into our site is to do what wikia did, which we should avoid at all costs
2009-03-07T11:08:16  <procyon> Yes, at some point, I will be touching base with them, and seeing what possibilities exists to increase revenue.
2009-03-07T11:08:19  <Tathar> can't put it in the main page?
2009-03-07T11:08:48  <procyon> Including it only on the main page is an option, but not lucrative enough to warrant the effort.
2009-03-07T11:09:21  <procyon> While it is the most visited page on the site, it's also one of the pages with the least amount of time spent on it.
2009-03-07T11:09:41  <najzere> Is there no possibility of it getting banner-fied?
2009-03-07T11:09:52  <Prod> the point is the shape/size
2009-03-07T11:09:53  <Skizzerz> we already have banner ads
2009-03-07T11:09:55  <Prod> not the ad itself
2009-03-07T11:10:00  <procyon> Exactly.
2009-03-07T11:10:21  <procyon> In all likelihood, it would probably be the same content as the other formats...
2009-03-07T11:10:49  <procyon> Like when you could see the WoW campaign ad running on both the tower and the banner at slightly different rates...
2009-03-07T11:10:55  <Skizzerz> do we have to run the same ad in both the banner and tower?
2009-03-07T11:11:00  <Tathar> can it be put under the infobox for each main game page?
2009-03-07T11:11:16  <Prod> ew
2009-03-07T11:11:21  <Skizzerz> if not, then we could do the gamerdna ad in the banner and have some other advertising agency in the tower, which should give us fresh content
2009-03-07T11:11:22  <procyon> Skiz: I would love to know how to influence that, but I don't see how, since it's entirely server fed.
2009-03-07T11:11:27  <Prod> (Skizzerz): that's up to gdna's ad script
2009-03-07T11:11:34  * Tathar is throwing out ideas
2009-03-07T11:11:40  <Skizzerz> as in, NOT gdna for both
2009-03-07T11:11:45  <Prod> oh
2009-03-07T11:11:45  <procyon> Skiz: Your proposal is a great idea, but against their terms of use contract.
2009-03-07T11:11:46  <Prod> no
2009-03-07T11:11:49  <Skizzerz> hmm
2009-03-07T11:12:08  <procyon> Skiz: We _can_ get out of the partnership at any time with a 60 day notice,
2009-03-07T11:12:18  <Skizzerz> that would be suicidal imo
2009-03-07T11:12:22  <Melon247> Tath, putting it under the infoboxes...
2009-03-07T11:12:23  <procyon> but the question becomes could we benefit better by going with anyone else.
2009-03-07T11:12:25  <procyon> I agree.
2009-03-07T11:12:28  <Melon247> that would take years
2009-03-07T11:12:35  <Tathar> I think we should ask GamerDNA to help make the banner ads fresher
2009-03-07T11:12:38  <procyon> No, it wouldn't take years at all,
2009-03-07T11:12:51  <Prod> (Melon247): we could mess with th etamplate and get it embedded
2009-03-07T11:12:51  <Melon247> set a bot on it
2009-03-07T11:12:54  <Skizzerz> Melon247: it'd be automated by the skin
2009-03-07T11:12:54  <procyon> but it still might not be enough of a change to influence revenue.
2009-03-07T11:12:56  <Prod> probably takes a few mins
2009-03-07T11:12:58  <Rocky> no, just an addition to the code
2009-03-07T11:13:00  <Skizzerz> not part of the wiki text itself
2009-03-07T11:13:16  <procyon> This might be a good discussion for the forum.
2009-03-07T11:13:21  <Prod> to note, we aren't in a "we're running out of money" situation
2009-03-07T11:13:26  <procyon> The question is not can we do it, but is it worth it.
2009-03-07T11:13:29  <procyon> No, not in the least.
2009-03-07T11:13:29  <Skizzerz> but looking at wikia, users were very alienated when they implemented a box ad in the content area
2009-03-07T11:13:30  <Prod> we're still fine for the forseeable future
2009-03-07T11:13:46  <procyon> In fact, what's interesting is that Brandon is highly in favor of the bounties idea.
2009-03-07T11:13:51  <Tathar> bounties?
2009-03-07T11:13:53  <Skizzerz> sweet :)
2009-03-07T11:14:04  <procyon> Which will lead us right back into the discussion we had before of how to implement them.
2009-03-07T11:14:13  <procyon> We could use this time to entertain that discussion,
2009-03-07T11:14:16  <Tathar> what bounties?
2009-03-07T11:14:19  <Skizzerz> well, we always have the Sitenotice to advertise them
2009-03-07T11:14:27  <Rocky> bounties on requested guides
2009-03-07T11:14:29  <procyon> but I would like to know if there are any other issues to address before we do.
2009-03-07T11:14:30  <Tathar> ah
2009-03-07T11:14:49  <Tathar> Procyon: I think we should ask GamerDNA to help improve the freshness of the ads
2009-03-07T11:14:55  <Duke> i'd like to bring up the Main Page/CP discussion at some point
2009-03-07T11:15:05  <Prod> (Duke): will do :)
2009-03-07T11:15:16  <procyon> So does anyone have any current pressing concerns about SW, or even Abxy, which Teddy has been working very closely with the guys from SpectacleRock to improve.
2009-03-07T11:15:21  <procyon> Has everyone seen the new page?
2009-03-07T11:15:25  <Tathar> maybe even ask them to use multiple ad networks including their own
2009-03-07T11:15:28  <Duke> i have no
2009-03-07T11:15:29  <Duke> t
2009-03-07T11:15:36  <Rocky> nope
2009-03-07T11:15:36  <Prod> blog.abxy.org
2009-03-07T11:15:54  <Rocky> not working :(
2009-03-07T11:15:56  <Duke> cool
2009-03-07T11:16:15  <procyon> http://www.abxy.org/blog/
2009-03-07T11:16:46  <Tathar> procyon: Can I get some input on the freshness idea?
2009-03-07T11:17:12  <procyon> Tathar: they are in the business of using ads to increase their own operational profit margin, we are in the business of providing video game content.  I would in now way wish to approach them about how to do their job which I know nothing about.
2009-03-07T11:17:52  <procyon> When our revenue dips, their profits are theoretically receiving the same hit.  That's not in their best interest,
2009-03-07T11:18:05  <procyon> so they will be doing everything that they are capable of doing to reverse that trend.
2009-03-07T11:18:15  <Tathar> Hence why I think that it's a good idea to bring forward
2009-03-07T11:18:38  <Tathar> I know that Kongregate uses multiple ad networks and they have VERY good ad revenue
2009-03-07T11:19:01  <Prod> there's a lot more to gdna than just the ad revenue
2009-03-07T11:19:04  <procyon> In all likelihood, this trend is in response to the economic downturn.  What I can ask is how our revenue trajectory differs from other sites within the network.
2009-03-07T11:19:22  <procyon> If the answer is substantially, then we can work to figure out what we can do to alter that.
2009-03-07T11:19:42  <procyon> If the answer is not at all, then there is little we can do, but ride out the state of affairs that everyone is suffering through.
2009-03-07T11:20:22  <Tathar> If it's not an option for GamerDNA, they'll just say so.  From what I'm hearing, it's a profit-sharing business model between SW and gamerdna, so it helps everyone to communicate
2009-03-07T11:20:26  <procyon> And Prod is absolutely right, thanks to them, we are hosted on fantastically performing servers with no downtime, and no overhead to our operating budget.
2009-03-07T11:21:31  <procyon> So, I will communicate with them at some point and get their input.  In the mean time, we have bounties and the front page as proposed issues.  Are their any others?
2009-03-07T11:22:16  <procyon> No?
2009-03-07T11:22:19  <Tathar> I have one
2009-03-07T11:22:19  <Melon247> not off the top of my head
2009-03-07T11:22:36  <procyon> OK, let's start with the front page then.  Duke, how would you like to begin that discussion?
2009-03-07T11:23:31  <Tathar> The work I did to make the Drift City guide feature prominently from the DC website seems to be bringing a lot of traffic to SW.  Maybe we should form a wikiproject (or similar) to do the same with other MMOs?
2009-03-07T11:23:32  <procyon> lol, Duke?
2009-03-07T11:23:44  <Duke> ah!  i'm back
2009-03-07T11:23:45  <Duke> sorry
2009-03-07T11:24:16  <Duke> There's been an ongoing discussion for some time about updating the main page and community portal to be something a little better and more compact
2009-03-07T11:24:36  <Melon247> that's why everyone has loads of user pages like them?
2009-03-07T11:24:47  <Duke> Melon: right, I'm finding the link to mine right now
2009-03-07T11:25:01  <Duke> http://strategywiki.org/wiki/User:Dukeruckley/Main_Page
2009-03-07T11:25:09  <Duke> http://strategywiki.org/wiki/User:Dukeruckley/Community_Portal
2009-03-07T11:25:33  <Duke> Those are the two I've come up with, with help from Garrett and Blendmaster
2009-03-07T11:25:59  <Duke> I'd like to urge everyone to take a look and make some tweaks so that we can finally get this implemented
2009-03-07T11:26:13  <Duke> I think its high time to eliminate the box look of our main page
2009-03-07T11:26:38  <Melon247> How about adding a list of featured guides so people don't have to go to the category?
2009-03-07T11:26:46  <Melon247> although that's practically pointless
2009-03-07T11:26:50  <najzere> Hopefully that will be a big list someday.
2009-03-07T11:27:23  <Prod> lets go over one at a time
2009-03-07T11:27:25  <Duke> I guess my question to you all is whether or not this is acceptable?  Do we want a change?  Should we wait for some more designs?
2009-03-07T11:27:38  <Melon247> more designs
2009-03-07T11:27:42  <Melon247> and have a vote
2009-03-07T11:28:48  <Duke> Is anyone willing to come up with another design?
2009-03-07T11:28:50  <procyon> Any thoughts?
2009-03-07T11:29:00  <Melon247> I'm willing :)
2009-03-07T11:29:00  <najzere> I think yours looks good Duke, if only because it's more blue than random other colors.
2009-03-07T11:29:03  * DrBob likes
2009-03-07T11:29:23  <najzere> Plus most popular/needed is a good idea.
2009-03-07T11:29:27  <Prod> i like Duke's design and I'd be happy to go with it
2009-03-07T11:29:35  * Skizzerz likes it, could use a few tweaks
2009-03-07T11:29:36  <Prod> with some minor changes
2009-03-07T11:30:09  <procyon> Personally, I'm in favor of using Duke's design.
2009-03-07T11:30:11  <Duke> I think the banner (that blue image behind the text) could be updated with something a little better
2009-03-07T11:30:15  * Melon247 doesn't mind what the main page looks like as long as it isn't blank
2009-03-07T11:30:21  <najzere> How are those lists generated?
2009-03-07T11:30:22  <procyon> Teddy might be able to help with that
2009-03-07T11:30:37  <Duke> Could be DPL or bot
2009-03-07T11:30:47  <najzere> As long as it's not by hand. :/
2009-03-07T11:30:58  <Prod> we're going to have to set up a bot to do it
2009-03-07T11:31:20  <Skizzerz> set up a bot to subst a DPL query :D
2009-03-07T11:31:22  <Prod> however
2009-03-07T11:31:30  <Prod> how often do those actually change?
2009-03-07T11:31:43  <Prod> MS has been #1 forever
2009-03-07T11:31:52  <Prod> M&B is #2
2009-03-07T11:32:02  <Tathar> can someone link to the most visited guides?
2009-03-07T11:32:03  <Prod> are those all time, or monthly?
2009-03-07T11:32:09  <Skizzerz> Prod: http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Special:Statistics
2009-03-07T11:32:26  <Skizzerz> maplestory takes up 90% of the most viewed there
2009-03-07T11:32:38  * Prod is using analytics
2009-03-07T11:32:51  <Tathar> I can't remember the link to the most page views per guide
2009-03-07T11:33:04  *** Rocky has quit IRC
2009-03-07T11:33:17  <Prod> does dpl handle monthly/weekly stats, or are those all time stas?
2009-03-07T11:33:30  <Skizzerz> probably all time
2009-03-07T11:33:32  *** Rocky has joined #SW-Meeting
2009-03-07T11:33:35  <Skizzerz> whatever is stored in the db
2009-03-07T11:34:13  <procyon> Well, do we want to set up a time table to implement Duke's design?
2009-03-07T11:34:29  <Prod> i think the first thing to get is how to keep those lists up to date
2009-03-07T11:34:30  <Melon247> yeah
2009-03-07T11:34:33  <Prod> and relevant
2009-03-07T11:34:41  <procyon> That would be part of the time table ^_^
2009-03-07T11:35:20  <Prod> well, who wants to work on that?
2009-03-07T11:35:24  <procyon> This could be another off-line forum discussion which would be implemented organically.
2009-03-07T11:35:25  <Prod> so there's two parts to that
2009-03-07T11:35:35  <Prod> one is where to run it from
2009-03-07T11:35:41  <Prod> and two is what to actually run
2009-03-07T11:36:23  <Duke> I'm okay with moving this discussion to the forums as long as it doesn't die out again >.<
2009-03-07T11:36:27  <procyon> I don't have much input on the subject other than that I'm in favor of doing it.
2009-03-07T11:36:46  <procyon> Well, I think if we label certain discussions as meeting follow ups, it might help.
2009-03-07T11:36:51  <procyon> Then again, Duke has a point.
2009-03-07T11:36:54  <Prod> my view is that someone with a 24/7 comp has a pywikipedia script scheduled
2009-03-07T11:37:02  <procyon> If it can be hashed out here,
2009-03-07T11:37:08  <procyon> that would be best.
2009-03-07T11:37:23  <Prod> we need to put people in charge of it rather than just pushing to the forums
2009-03-07T11:37:41  <DrBob> Prod: It doesn't need to be 24/7 at all. It could be updated once a week at the worst
2009-03-07T11:37:48  * Melon247 isn't on her computer all the time despite the 247 in her name
2009-03-07T11:37:51  <DrBob> *and not be any worse for it
2009-03-07T11:38:04  <Prod> (DrBob): well, when I say 24/7 i mean some who's computer is guaranteed to be on at the running time
2009-03-07T11:39:28  <procyon> The only reason I propose taking this offline
2009-03-07T11:39:38  <procyon> is because people seem to be lacking ideas at the moment.
2009-03-07T11:40:26  <procyon> OK, I will try to get a forum discussion underway,.
2009-03-07T11:40:32  <procyon> In the mean time,
2009-03-07T11:40:45  <procyon> there is still the matter of bounties, which I feel that most people are in favor of,
2009-03-07T11:40:57  <procyon> but once again, are having a hard time deciding how they should be implemented.
2009-03-07T11:41:17  <Tathar> What are the ideas tht have been presented before?
2009-03-07T11:41:27  <procyon> We have one clear disadvantage over, say GameFAQs, in that no guide's work is the ownership of any one author.
2009-03-07T11:41:37  <procyon> MVP awards essentially.
2009-03-07T11:41:54  <Tathar> hmm
2009-03-07T11:41:56  <procyon> One or more guides become bounty targets for that month,
2009-03-07T11:42:11  <procyon> and after the month is up, the MVP award goes to a community vote for one week.
2009-03-07T11:42:25  <Tathar> Kongregate encourages participation with its user levels, maybe something like that?
2009-03-07T11:42:32  <Tathar> can even hve leaderboards
2009-03-07T11:42:34  <procyon> Sysops are inelligable to be nominated, but are allowed to vote.
2009-03-07T11:42:46  <Duke> i think our biggest problem (with the vote idea) is that we don't have a large active community yet
2009-03-07T11:43:05  <Tathar> Duke: I have an answer for that that I'd like to bring up later
2009-03-07T11:43:30  <procyon> Duke: bounties would be, in a sense, provided to address that specific concern.
2009-03-07T11:43:54  <Tathar> Oh, and I don't think bounties should be up to community vote.
2009-03-07T11:43:59  <Duke> maybe we need some way to implement bounties without the community vote portion to begin with
2009-03-07T11:44:20  <Tathar> I think they should be instantly or quickly awardable
2009-03-07T11:44:21  <Rocky> sysops only?
2009-03-07T11:44:47  <Duke> Rocky:  That's what I was thinking
2009-03-07T11:44:54  <Duke> at least initially
2009-03-07T11:44:56  <Tathar> Like "do this, you get an award worth X points"
2009-03-07T11:45:44  <Tathar> leaderboards + points do a lot to improve activity on a site
2009-03-07T11:45:51  <Tathar> it's why forums have post counts
2009-03-07T11:45:59  <procyon> Tathar: Precisely who would you like to implement that?
2009-03-07T11:46:36  <Prod> hmm
2009-03-07T11:46:38  <Tathar> procyon: I'm trying to start a brainstorm, not an end-all solution
2009-03-07T11:46:52  <Prod> this might be useful for "put together an achievements page for $5"
2009-03-07T11:46:54  <Duke> tathar has a good point, and it could be done alongside bounties if you ask me
2009-03-07T11:47:08  <Tathar> I thought that was what bounties were
2009-03-07T11:47:19  <Prod> we were thinking more guide wide
2009-03-07T11:47:27  <Tathar> examples?
2009-03-07T11:47:43  <Prod> "bring this guide to stage 3 for $30"
2009-03-07T11:47:49  <Tathar> real money?
2009-03-07T11:47:53  <Prod> yes
2009-03-07T11:47:56  <Duke> Bring Super Mario World up to Featured Status for $60
2009-03-07T11:48:03  <Tathar> I think you can do it without money involved
2009-03-07T11:48:07  <procyon> No,
2009-03-07T11:48:10  <procyon> Featured is voted upon.
2009-03-07T11:48:12  <najzere> There is a precedent for how much people are willing to work on specific guides not of their choosing.
2009-03-07T11:48:16  <procyon> We can't "promise" them money for that.
2009-03-07T11:48:20  <najzere> Collab of the month and requested guides.
2009-03-07T11:48:35  <Tathar> you'll need to improve ads before you can throw money around
2009-03-07T11:48:55  <procyon> Tathar: Relax about the ads, we have a good starting point.
2009-03-07T11:49:01  <Tathar> ok
2009-03-07T11:49:05  <procyon> As long as we never fofer more than $500/month,
2009-03-07T11:49:09  <procyon> we will be fine.
2009-03-07T11:49:10  <Prod> :P
2009-03-07T11:49:14  <Tathar> heh
2009-03-07T11:49:26  *** Melon247 has quit IRC
2009-03-07T11:49:44  <Tathar> oh, and I think $20 should be the cap for anything that does end up with money for a reward
2009-03-07T11:50:01  <Prod> so that's another thing to worry about
2009-03-07T11:50:03  <procyon> GameFAQs offers $50 and $100 bounties.
2009-03-07T11:50:04  <Prod> how much to offer and for what
2009-03-07T11:50:05  <DrBob> Tathar: Why?
2009-03-07T11:50:16  <DrBob> If we want big things done, it's reasonable to offer big rewards
2009-03-07T11:50:22  <Tathar> because spending more than that to improve one game guide doesn't seem sustainable
2009-03-07T11:50:25  <Prod> it has to be based on the difficulty and amount of work required
2009-03-07T11:50:35  <Duke> i would like to suggest we have a project to coordinate this
2009-03-07T11:51:06  <Prod> StrategyWiki:Bounties
2009-03-07T11:51:13  <Prod> or Bounties project
2009-03-07T11:51:20  <Prod> to match achievements project
2009-03-07T11:51:52  <Prod> it would lay out all the rules
2009-03-07T11:51:58  <najzere> Maybe a user rewards project in case bounties don't end up as the sole member.
2009-03-07T11:52:16  <Prod> and maybe we should pick a different name too
2009-03-07T11:52:17  <DrBob> eh?
2009-03-07T11:52:25  * Prod shared DrBob's eh
2009-03-07T11:52:29  <DrBob> Bounties doesn't necessarily have to mean cash rewards
2009-03-07T11:52:33  <najzere> I mean a broader project to include bounties.
2009-03-07T11:52:42  <najzere> Which could also include other things.
2009-03-07T11:52:45  <Duke> StrategyWiki:Bounties could be the official page of where to find the bounties, but a project could be used to coordinate which guide for X dollars
2009-03-07T11:52:47  <Tathar> procyon: I'm not sure what they pay that kind of money for, but I'd like to know
2009-03-07T11:52:48  <Prod> i think this should cover anything that involves giving out real money
2009-03-07T11:52:48  <najzere> Leader board, site achievements, whatnot.
2009-03-07T11:53:34  <Prod> i'm not sure we want to start making elitists out of any of our users with leader boards and achievements
2009-03-07T11:53:39  <procyon> My only question is how we propose to implement this.
2009-03-07T11:53:42  <procyon> It's a great idea,
2009-03-07T11:53:43  <Duke> DrBob:  I agree, we can easily give out our own version of a barnstar
2009-03-07T11:53:54  <procyon> but it's going to take significant PHP coding.
2009-03-07T11:54:04  <Skizzerz> I could handle that
2009-03-07T11:54:20  *** najzere has quit IRC
2009-03-07T11:54:28  <Tathar> I propose a bounty for it :P
2009-03-07T11:55:00  <Prod> I think we should put it to starting a project for it
2009-03-07T11:55:05  <Tathar> yeah
2009-03-07T11:55:08  <Prod> we can iron out details as it evloves
2009-03-07T11:55:14  <Prod> so all we need right now is a name
2009-03-07T11:55:20  <Prod> and i'd rather not use bounties
2009-03-07T11:55:31  <Tathar> is achievements taken?
2009-03-07T11:55:37  <Prod> yes :P
2009-03-07T11:55:39  <Tathar> badges.
2009-03-07T11:55:41  <Prod> same with trophies
2009-03-07T11:55:51  <Prod> i'd prefer something that involved money :P
2009-03-07T11:56:05  <Rocky> rewards?
2009-03-07T11:56:25  <Tathar> I'm not sure that starting out with something involving money is a good idea
2009-03-07T11:56:33  <Prod> that's the whole point though
2009-03-07T11:56:43  <Prod> we have money to put back into the community
2009-03-07T11:56:49  <Tathar> here's the problem
2009-03-07T11:57:10  <Tathar> if multiple people work on a certain bounty expecting a reward, what do you do?
2009-03-07T11:57:17  <Duke> from thesaurus " accolade, award, benefit, bonus, bounty, carrot*, comeuppance, compensation, crown*, cue, dividend, feather in cap, fringe benefit, gain, garland, goodies, gravy*, grease*, guerdon, honor, just deserts*, meed, merit, perks, plum*, premium, profit, punishment, recompense, remuneration, repayment, requital, retribution, return, salve, strokes, sweetener, tip, wages  "
2009-03-07T11:57:27  <Tathar> or what if someone completes a bounty but you can't send the money to them?
2009-03-07T11:57:28  <Prod> (Tathar): that's another thing that has to be worked out
2009-03-07T11:57:29  <procyon> You guys do realize that this is similar to something that our chief rival implements, correct? wikicheats?
2009-03-07T11:57:37  <Rocky> tath: get sysops to decide who gets what share
2009-03-07T11:58:06  <Prod> or, have people work on it offline, and then submit it
2009-03-07T11:58:10  <procyon> (which, according to Alexa at least, we have been safely outperforming since the start of 2009)
2009-03-07T11:58:49  * Prod likes goodies
2009-03-07T11:58:50  <Tathar> I think Honors, Merits, and Awards are good picks.
2009-03-07T11:59:02  <procyon> FYI: http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/strategywiki.org?site0=strategywiki.org&site1=wikicheats.com&y=t&z=1&h=300&w=470&c=1&u%5B%5D=strategywiki.org&u%5B%5D=wikicheats.com&x=2009-03-07T20%3A07%3A25.000Z&check=www.alexa.com&signature=4KSWqegcTBOx9WcZluxuWPRMyhY%3D&range=3m&size=Medium
2009-03-07T11:59:04  <Tathar> goodies implies something unlockable in a game
2009-03-07T11:59:12  <Prod> yep :)
2009-03-07T11:59:18  <Prod> something nice and sweet ^_^
2009-03-07T11:59:41  <Tathar> Awards gives the option for monetary and non-monetary
2009-03-07T11:59:42  <procyon> I don't think that we have so much as pulled away from WC, as they have begun to falter,
2009-03-07T11:59:48  <procyon> and my hope is that that continues.
2009-03-07T11:59:56  <procyon> WC is not GT's primary concern,
2009-03-07T12:00:03  <Tathar> GT?
2009-03-07T12:00:06  <procyon> and as a result, I suspect it may be suffering as a result.
2009-03-07T12:00:10  <Prod> i think we do the best we can and not worry about them
2009-03-07T12:00:10  <procyon> GameTrailers.
2009-03-07T12:00:13  <Tathar> oh
2009-03-07T12:00:30  <procyon> Prod: I agree, I just like to be aware of how we're doing.
2009-03-07T12:00:52  <procyon> I'm still not exactly certain how "Reach" is calculated,
2009-03-07T12:00:56  <procyon> but we're pulling away from them.
2009-03-07T12:00:57  <Duke> Tathar:  I like Awards as well in relation to money, but I like Honors for barnstar type rewards
2009-03-07T12:01:25  <procyon> And we're getting very close to have 50,000 unique visitor each weekend on a regular basis
2009-03-07T12:01:26  <Prod> how about the cookie project?
2009-03-07T12:01:27  <Tathar> I don't think we should use barnstar-type rewards
2009-03-07T12:01:34  <Prod> to go along with our "fix this stub for a cookie"
2009-03-07T12:02:05  <Tathar> I think that something that can be used for a leaderboard without weighting everything the same is a must for non-monetary
2009-03-07T12:02:30  <Duke> Call it the "Honors project" and award people with the Cookie Award or somesuch
2009-03-07T12:02:43  <Prod> honours *
2009-03-07T12:02:44  <Prod> ;)
2009-03-07T12:02:46  <Tathar> otherwise "bring this guide up a level" is the same as "add an image for this item"
2009-03-07T12:02:52  * Duke laughs
2009-03-07T12:03:20  <Prod> the milk project that gives out cookies?
2009-03-07T12:03:25  <Tathar> lol
2009-03-07T12:03:47  <Prod> in the interests of time, i'm going to start the StrategyWiki:Milk project
2009-03-07T12:03:59  <Prod> renames/anything to do with "bounties" goes there
2009-03-07T12:04:02  <Prod> and we can continue that offline
2009-03-07T12:04:45  <Duke> Prod:  Sounds good
2009-03-07T12:04:59  <Duke> StrategyWiki:Sweets project
2009-03-07T12:05:00  <procyon> OK, so we have three offline discussion topics:
2009-03-07T12:05:10  <Rocky> or goodies?
2009-03-07T12:05:36  <procyon> 1) possibility of integrating 300x250 ads in to infoboxes (personally, I'm not crazy about the idea, but I'd like the community to weigh in)
2009-03-07T12:05:50  <procyon> 2) How to implement Duke's changes to the front page,
2009-03-07T12:06:05  <procyon> and 3) How to implement the "bounties" project, and what we're going to call it specifically.
2009-03-07T12:06:10  <Prod> http://strategywiki.org/wiki/StrategyWiki:Milk_project
2009-03-07T12:06:25  <procyon> Does anyone have any additional comments, or suggestions that they'd like to make at this time, about anything at all?
2009-03-07T12:06:33  <procyon> The floor is open.
2009-03-07T12:06:44  <Duke> There's a forum discussion about image categories
2009-03-07T12:06:56  <procyon> Oh yeah, good call Duke.
2009-03-07T12:07:02  <procyon> Where'd najzere go?
2009-03-07T12:07:18  <Prod> or DrBob in his stead
2009-03-07T12:07:19  <procyon> I wanted to publicly thank him for all the crazy work he's been doing./
2009-03-07T12:08:06  <procyon> Hmm... :/
2009-03-07T12:08:11  <Skizzerz> Tathar: wasn't there something you wanted to bring up?
2009-03-07T12:08:24  <procyon> Well, it does not appear to be a pressing matter, and we can raise it next month if it is.
2009-03-07T12:08:37  <Tathar> yes
2009-03-07T12:08:48  <Tathar> The work I did to make the Drift City guide feature prominently from the DC website seems to be bringing a lot of traffic to SW.  Maybe we should form a wikiproject (or similar) to do the same with other MMOs?
2009-03-07T12:08:48  <Duke> if we were to change Category:Bosses to Category:Boss images, could we do that with a bot?
2009-03-07T12:09:17  <Prod> (Duke): yes
2009-03-07T12:09:19  <Skizzerz> Duke: sure
2009-03-07T12:09:29  <Duke> Thanks, sorry for interrupting :)
2009-03-07T12:09:39  <Skizzerz> Tathar: sounds like a good idea
2009-03-07T12:10:02  <Prod> i'm not sure how willing the mmo makers would be though
2009-03-07T12:10:11  <Tathar> also, I'd like to mention that Drift City is currently the #20 most viewed guide
2009-03-07T12:10:15  <Duke> we could do this with a lot of games, like Left 4 Dead or Team Fortress 2, both of which have active modding communities
2009-03-07T12:10:18  <Prod> community sites on the other hand are usually quite happy
2009-03-07T12:10:41  <Prod> (Duke): we're not too far into modding though :(
2009-03-07T12:10:42  <Tathar> not sure what the actual views are, but Drift City has brought quite a bit of new registered editors
2009-03-07T12:10:56  <Tathar> yeah, community sites including the official community site
2009-03-07T12:11:10  <Duke> Prod:  Even so, there's a community there that might be interested, whether we have modding on here or not
2009-03-07T12:11:13  <Tathar> a sticky on the official forums is basically the goal
2009-03-07T12:11:28  <Tathar> or better
2009-03-07T12:11:43  <Prod> IsaacGS has done quite a bit of that for the MapleStory guide
2009-03-07T12:11:54  <Tathar> a link from the game site is a good goal too
2009-03-07T12:12:08  <Tathar> but sticky on the forums is probably more feasible for most games
2009-03-07T12:13:21  <Prod> i thinkthat will have to be more on a guide by guide basis
2009-03-07T12:13:26  <Tathar> yeah
2009-03-07T12:13:27  <Prod> by the people who are actually working on it
2009-03-07T12:13:58  <Prod> it would most likely have to be organized by the people working on the guide specifically like you and others did for Drift City
2009-03-07T12:14:08  <Tathar> I'd be willing to help with the project since I've already done it successfully once
2009-03-07T12:14:22  <Prod> the MapleStory authors worked to get a fair bit of mention in the MS community
2009-03-07T12:14:41  <Prod> Exteel forums also have some mention of our site
2009-03-07T12:14:42  <Tathar> does it have a sticky or permanent link there?
2009-03-07T12:14:49  <Skizzerz> I can see if we can get a link to strategywiki on basilmarket, which would boost up the maplestory community a bit more
2009-03-07T12:14:49  <Prod> dunno
2009-03-07T12:15:04  <Tathar> because that's the goal for each game in the project
2009-03-07T12:15:21  <Prod> we already get tons of traffic from basil/sleepywood due to people just linking to us
2009-03-07T12:15:44  <Tathar> permanent link or sticky is 10x better though
2009-03-07T12:16:02  <Duke> it never hurts to try
2009-03-07T12:16:09  <Prod> agreed
2009-03-07T12:16:12  * Tathar quotes "be bold"
2009-03-07T12:16:23  <Prod> however, the problem with that is what we can offer them in exchange
2009-03-07T12:16:38  <Prod> the best we can really do is links on the front page
2009-03-07T12:16:46  <Tathar> I have that handled
2009-03-07T12:16:54  <Tathar> it really doesn't take much
2009-03-07T12:17:30  <Tathar> if you're the authoritative fan site with information on the game, it won't be hard
2009-03-07T12:17:51  <Tathar> in fact in that case you don't even need to do anything in exchange
2009-03-07T12:18:14  <Tathar> it's something that you'd probably want to have a 2.5+ level guide for though
2009-03-07T12:19:08  <procyon> Well,
2009-03-07T12:19:18  <procyon> Is there an action item that we can take away from this?
2009-03-07T12:19:22  <Tathar> before that, you want to add to it to bring it up to 1.5-2 then link to specific parts that answer people's questions on the official forums
2009-03-07T12:19:32  <procyon> Or do we just put it in the back of our mind for future consideration?
2009-03-07T12:19:37  <Tathar> procyon: make a project for it?
2009-03-07T12:20:00  <Prod> we don't have that many guides that meet those requirements....
2009-03-07T12:20:08  <Tathar> MMOs?
2009-03-07T12:20:09  <Duke> I'd say back of our mind...  I think this is something to do for our better guides that have active communities
2009-03-07T12:20:13  <Prod> i think a project for it is premature
2009-03-07T12:20:14  <Tathar> anything with a community site
2009-03-07T12:20:33  <Prod> voyage century seems to be doing well
2009-03-07T12:20:36  <Tathar> Duke: the idea is to create an active community for a guide, not to already have one
2009-03-07T12:20:56  <Prod> (Tathar): chicken/egg situation
2009-03-07T12:21:03  <Prod> we need a good guide to get them to link to us
2009-03-07T12:21:05  <Duke> What I mean is that games with active communities, we should do this for
2009-03-07T12:21:12  <Tathar> Prod: solved by personal effort into the guide's creation.
2009-03-07T12:21:26  <Tathar> I have the whole thing figured out from start to finish
2009-03-07T12:21:31  <Tathar> I've done this before
2009-03-07T12:22:50  <Tathar> and I'd like to offer my help with the project to make it work
2009-03-07T12:23:05  <Prod> (Tathar): you're willing to play all these MMOs?
2009-03-07T12:23:20  <Prod> in comparison, Drift City is a fairly small MMO
2009-03-07T12:23:23  <Tathar> well, I obviously can't help in that way
2009-03-07T12:23:28  <Duke> Tathar I don't think we have enough guides for a project like taht?
2009-03-07T12:23:33  <Duke> it'd be inactive
2009-03-07T12:23:57  <procyon> Alright, well, I think we should wrap this up a bit.
2009-03-07T12:23:58  <Tathar> the project will need people to find active members of the community to help start the guide
2009-03-07T12:24:31  <Prod> circular logic, there need to be enough people interested in the project to begin with
2009-03-07T12:24:43  <Prod> for the moment, I think it's best to wait till a few more MMOs pop up on our site
2009-03-07T12:24:47  <Tathar> but I can help a guide's adopter bring in help
2009-03-07T12:25:10  <Prod> if you're interested in helping
2009-03-07T12:25:16  <procyon> Tathar, I would highly recommend that you raise this issue in the forums if you feel strongly about it.
2009-03-07T12:25:17  <Prod> i can point you to some of the promising looking MMOs
2009-03-07T12:25:24  <Tathar> ok
2009-03-07T12:25:29  <procyon> I don't think that it's something that we need to make an official policy on right at this moment,
2009-03-07T12:25:32  * Prod agrees with procyon
2009-03-07T12:25:36  <procyon> but it could benefit from further thought and discussion.
2009-03-07T12:25:40  * Duke nods
2009-03-07T12:25:45  <procyon> Cool.
2009-03-07T12:25:55  <procyon> Unless anyone else has any serious concerns,
2009-03-07T12:26:02  <procyon> I'd say this was a pretty awesome meeting.
2009-03-07T12:26:07  <Skizzerz> yep
2009-03-07T12:26:11  <procyon> I will initiate the three topics in the forums.
2009-03-07T12:26:11  <Tathar> well, I won't be able to put as much initial work into the project if it takes several months to create
2009-03-07T12:26:15  <procyon> As always,
2009-03-07T12:26:29  <procyon> I want to thank all of you for your participation, not just today, but every single day,
2009-03-07T12:26:44  <procyon> And I enjoy working with all of you.
2009-03-07T12:26:53  <Tathar> oh wait
2009-03-07T12:26:56  <Tathar> I have one more thing
2009-03-07T12:27:00  <procyon> ok...
2009-03-07T12:27:23  <Tathar> I forget who, but someone wanted me to remind them that MonoBook has no ads
2009-03-07T12:27:29  <Prod> that was me
2009-03-07T12:27:30  <Rocky> prod iirc
2009-03-07T12:27:35  <Prod> actually on that note
2009-03-07T12:27:36  <Tathar> ok
2009-03-07T12:27:44  <Prod> we're going to be doing the MediaWiki 1.14 upgrade tonight
2009-03-07T12:27:50  <Prod> there will be some downtime during the upgrade
2009-03-07T12:28:03  <Duke> what's the status on the new wiki?
2009-03-07T12:28:07  <Prod> if you see any issues with layout or anything like that in the morning, leave a message on my talk page and we'll look into that
2009-03-07T12:28:40  <Prod> or pm on the forums if the site is down :P (though that shouldn't happen)
2009-03-07T12:29:18  <procyon> Duke: Oh thanks man...
2009-03-07T12:29:21  <procyon> totally forgot.
2009-03-07T12:29:29  <procyon> Because of my down time during Feb,
2009-03-07T12:29:36  <procyon> And the recent stuff with Brandon,
2009-03-07T12:29:40  <procyon> all negotiations have stalled.
2009-03-07T12:29:47  <procyon> My goal will be to revitalize them this month.
2009-03-07T12:29:52  <Tathar> can you explain?
2009-03-07T12:29:58  <Prod> it's on hold
2009-03-07T12:30:03  <Prod> we're going to get back to it soon
2009-03-07T12:30:08  <procyon> Exactly.
2009-03-07T12:30:15  <procyon> Nothing more to explain.
2009-03-07T12:30:17  <Tathar> I don't think I've been kept in the loop about Brandom
2009-03-07T12:30:21  <Tathar> err
2009-03-07T12:30:24  <Tathar> Brandon
2009-03-07T12:30:27  <Prod> there's not much to it
2009-03-07T12:30:32  <Prod> he was away for a while
2009-03-07T12:30:42  <Prod> now he's back with about the same regularity as before
2009-03-07T12:30:48  <Tathar> well, I did say before that I wanted to be kept updated
2009-03-07T12:30:49  <procyon> He's been dealing with some personal issues.
2009-03-07T12:31:08  <procyon> Tathar: the issue has been discussed at length on the forum.
2009-03-07T12:31:16  <Prod> (Tathar): mostly a private matter
2009-03-07T12:31:21  <Tathar> abxy or some other forum?
2009-03-07T12:31:24  <Prod> doesn't impact the site
2009-03-07T12:31:26  <procyon> abxy
2009-03-07T12:31:45  <Tathar> I'll need a link then
2009-03-07T12:31:52  <Prod> site search
2009-03-07T12:31:58  <procyon> o_O;
2009-03-07T12:32:07  <procyon> Anyway, moving on.
2009-03-07T12:32:12  <Prod> I think that discussion can be followed up in the regular channel
2009-03-07T12:32:19  <procyon> Yes
2009-03-07T12:32:21  <procyon> Agreed
2009-03-07T12:32:27  <procyon> I think that about wraps it up.
2009-03-07T12:32:45  <procyon> Please feel free to communicate any other concerns you have with Prod or myself at any time.
2009-03-07T12:33:05  <procyon> And thanks again everybody,.
2009-03-07T12:33:11  <procyon> See you in @ 1 month.
2009-03-07T12:33:27  <procyon> (back here that is :)  )
2009-03-07T12:33:43  <Prod> next meeting will be April 4th
2009-03-07T12:34:01  <Prod> 2 PM EST (or EDT whichever it is)
2009-03-07T12:34:47  <procyon> lol
2009-03-07T12:34:56  <procyon> I think after tonight, it's EDT
2009-03-07T12:35:12  <Prod> don't forget to change your clocks (if you have to)